Autore Topic: Le prime regole del calcio (8 Dicembre 1863) e una partita da organizzare.  (Letto 17632 volte)

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neweagle

Re:Le prime regole del calcio (8 Dicembre 1863) e una partita da organizzare.
« Risposta #40 : Sabato 5 Maggio 2012, 14:25:36 »
Sto leggendo un libro su Francesco Gabrielli, il Maestro di ginnastica che inventò un simil-calcio, ispirandosi alle regole dell'Association ma con regole fatte a modo suo. Sarebbe quel "calcio" di cui una esibizione a Roma nel 1895 viene rivendicata dai trigorioidi (al solo fine di negare la nostra primogenitura cittadina, ovviamente) come "prima partita di calcio mai giocata a Roma". E' importante, per confrontare le varie versioni del gioco e le rispettive regole. Va sottolineato ancora una volta che tutto il movimento del "calcio" ginnastico è assolutamente (e giustamente a mio avviso) ignorato dalla FIGC.

neweagle, sai se su web sono acquistabili quei testi?
Io quello in Inglese l'ho ordinato tramite libreria, ho aspettato un mesetto e poi mi è arrivato.
Però ho trovato questo link su amazon, ti si dovrebbe aprire, ora provo a vedere se si trova anche quello in francese.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Rules-Association-Football-1863/sim/1851243755/2

si trova anche quello francese
http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=les+premieres+regles&x=14&y=20

neweagle

Re:Le prime regole del calcio (8 Dicembre 1863) e una partita da organizzare.
« Risposta #41 : Sabato 5 Maggio 2012, 14:39:24 »
Questa è meravigliosa:

Aston-Sunderland 1893, dipinto




geddy

Re:Le prime regole del calcio (8 Dicembre 1863) e una partita da organizzare.
« Risposta #42 : Sabato 5 Maggio 2012, 14:52:58 »
Questa invece è la copertina di un libro che mi sono fatto mandare dall'Inghilterra, parla proprio delle regole dell'8 dicembre 1863, ora l'ho dato ad un amico che, dice, me lo sta traducendo.

"Ben fatto Mac"


In Francia invece è uscito questo, in  copertina il particolare di cui discutevamo prima, sempre più convinto che sia una rovesciata, la didascalia dice "Well Done Mac !!!", cosa vuol dire?



In Italia non è uscito mai niente del genere invece.

neweagle

Re:Le prime regole del calcio (8 Dicembre 1863) e una partita da organizzare.
« Risposta #43 : Sabato 5 Maggio 2012, 15:00:47 »
Francesco Gabrielli, il Maestro di ginnastica
da quello che ho  capito il calcio di Gabrielli si riferisce ad un gioco praticamente statico, dove i componenti delle due squadre si fronteggiano rimanendo praticamente fermi nelle tre linee loro assegante, più il portiere.
L'unico che può muoversi è il capitano.

Sicuramente si ispirò alle regole dell'associazione, che disponeva, ma codificò decisamente un altro sport rispetto al soccer (sdoganiamo il termine), che come si può capire anche dalle immagini, era assolutamente diverso.

geddy

Re:Le prime regole del calcio (8 Dicembre 1863) e una partita da organizzare.
« Risposta #44 : Sabato 5 Maggio 2012, 15:07:29 »
Quindi è corretto per i romanisti sostenere la loro primogenitura. Effettivamente loro hanno sempre giocato un altro gioco.
Non come Maradona però.

Teo

Re:Le prime regole del calcio (8 Dicembre 1863) e una partita da organizzare.
« Risposta #45 : Sabato 5 Maggio 2012, 15:09:45 »
da quello che ho  capito il calcio di Gabrielli si riferisce ad un gioco praticamente statico, dove i componenti delle due squadre si fronteggiano rimanendo praticamente fermi nelle tre linee loro assegante, più il portiere.
L'unico che può muoversi è il capitano.

Sicuramente si ispirò alle regole dell'associazione, che disponeva, ma codificò decisamente un altro sport rispetto al soccer (sdoganiamo il termine), che come si può capire anche dalle immagini, era assolutamente diverso.

Proprio così. Infatti nel suo "regolamento" del 1896 Gabrielli deplorava l'abitudine degli atleti di andare fuori linea... Quello del 1895 edito da Hoepli è invece citato, ma non viene riportata nel libro quasi nessuna regola. So con certezza che Gabrielli aveva introdotto nel 1895 qualche variante di sua iniziativa, per esempio quella di assegnare una "partita" (gol) ogni due falli laterali guadagnati, forse un'influenza del calcio in costume medievale. E so anche che nel 1898 una squadra che giocava con le regole di Gabrielli si trovò in grave difficoltà perché l'arbitro (inglese) fischiava continuamente alcune infrazioni che erano accettate nel regolamento di Gabrielli, ma non nelle regole della FA.

Ecco qui

1.Teatro del Calcio sia la Piazza di S. Croce.
 2.Dal giorno sesto di Gennaio fino a tutto il Carnevale, sia il campo conceduto agli esercizi del Calcio.
 3.Ciascun dì verso la sera, al suono delle Trombe compariscano in campo i Giuocatori.
 4.Qualunque Gentiluomo, o Signore vuole la prima volta esercitarsi nel giuoco: siasi avanti rassegnato al Provveditore.
 5.Facciasi cerchio, e corona in mezzo al Teatro con pigliarsi per mano i Giuocatori; acciò dal Provveditore, e da quei, che saranno da lui a tale effetto invitati, siano scelte le squadre, e ciascuno inviato al posto, ed uficio destinatoli.
 6.Nel Calcio diviso, il numero de' Giuocatori sia di 27 per parte, da distribuirsi in 5 Sconciatori, 7 Datori, che quattro innanzi, e tre addietro: e quindici corridori in tre quadriglie: tutti per combattere ne' luoghi ed ordini soliti, e consueti del Giuoco.
 7.I Giuocatori siano a tal fine trascelti, e descritti nella lista, né aggiugnere vi se ne possa, o mutarne.
 8.In vece de' Mancanti, prima di cominciar la battaglia, proponga il Provveditore gli scambj; I Giudici gli eleggano.
 9.Escano le Schiere in campo all'ora concordata.
 10.Nella comparsa i Primi siano i Trombetti, Secondi i Tamburini, poi comincino a venire gli Innanzi più Giovani, a coppie, di maniera che a guisa di scacchiere nella prima coppia a man dritta sia l'Innanzi dell'un colore, nella seconda dell'altro, nella terza come nella prima, seguendo coll'ordine predetto di mano in mano. Dopo tutti gli Innanzi vengano gli Alfieri a' quali nuovi tamburi marcino avanti. Appresso loro seguano gli Sconciatori. Dietro questi i Datori innanzi, de' quali quelli del muro portino in mano la palla. Per ultimi succedano i Datori indietro.
 11.Quel degli Alfieri cui la sorte averà eletto sia alla destra.
 12.Girata una volta la piazza, le insegne diansi in mano de' Giudici. Nelle livree più solenni, e nelle disfide si consegnino a i Soldati della Guardia del Sereniss. Granduca Nostro Signore, per tenersi ciascuna d'avanti al proprio Padiglione.
 13.Pur nelle livree, e Disfide, il Maestro di Campo, colle Trombe, e i Tamburi avanti, vada il primiero, seguito dagli innanzi del suo colore a coppie, precedenti tutti l'Alfiere, il quale colle genti di suo servizio d'attorno porti l'insegna, seguito poi dagli Sconciatori, e Datori: uscendo di così in ordinanza, ciascuna schiera di per se dal proprio Padiglione, giri sulla man destra tutto il Teatro fino al luogo donde prima partì.
 14.In luogo alto, e sublime, sì che è veggano tutta la piazza, seggano I Giudici. Siano eletti di comun consenso, né concordandosi, de' proposti dalle Parti in numero uguale, pongansi alla ventura.
 15.Al primo tocco della Tromba, che faran sonare i Giudici si ritirino tutte le genti di servizio, lasciando libero il campo.
 16.Al secondo, vadano i giuocatori a pigliare i lor posti.
 17.Al terzo, il pallaio vestito d'amendue i colori, dalla banda del muro rincontro al segno di Marmo, giustamente batta la palla.
 18.Coll'istesso ordine si cammini, sempre, che per essersi fatta la caccia, o il fallo, debba darsi nuovo principio al giuoco.
 19.Il Pallaio gli ordini de Giudici prontamente, eseguendo sempre, e dovunque bisogno ne sia, la palla rimetta.
 20.Uscendo la palla de gli steccati portata dalla furia de' Corridori rimettasi per terra in quel luogo dond'ella uscì.
 21.Uscendo la medesima de gli steccati per mano del Datore, (mentre non sia caccia, né fallo) se i Corridori vi saran giunti in tempo, che potessero al nemico Datore impedirne il riscatto, rimettasi quivi per terra; ma non sendo arrivati in tempo, diasi in mano al Dator più vicino, ed allora i Corridori tornino dentro a gli Sconciatori a' lor luoghi ed ufici, senza perder però l'avvantaggio della piazza già guadagnata.
 22.Sia vinta la caccia sempre, che la palla spinta con calcio, o pugno esca di posta fuora degli ultimi steccati avversarj di fronte.
 23.Sia sempre fallo, che la palla sia scagliata, o datole a mano aperta, sì che ella così percossa s'alzi oltre l'ordinaria statura di un uomo.
 24.Sia fallo eziandio, quando la palla resti di posta fuora dell'ultimo steccato dalla banda della fossa.
 25.Se la palla esca di posta fuori dello steccato verso gl'angoli della Fossa, la linea diagonale della piazza prolungata distinguerà se sia Fallo, o Caccia.
26.Due falli, in disfavore di chi gli fe', vagliano quanto una caccia.
 27.Vinta la caccia, cambisi posto. Alle disfide nel mutar luogo l'Insegna vincente sia portata per tutto alta, e distesa, la perdente fino a mezzo bassa, e raccolta.
 28.Rompendosi la palla da' Corridori, che fossero stati, nell'atto del darle, già fuora degli Sconciatori, s'intenda esser mal giuoco, e da' Giudici si determini ciò, che sia di ragione.
 29.Nell'interpretare, ed eseguire i presenti Capitoli, ed in ciò, a che per essi non si provede, sovrana sia l'autorità de' Giudici, e da loro se ne attenda presta, ed inappellabil sentenza.
 30.Vincansi le deliberazioni fra loro, colla pluralità de' voti.
 31.Un giuocatore per parte, e nella disfida Mastro di campo, e non altri, abbiano autorità di disputare d'avanti a' Giudici tutte le differenze occorrenti.
 32.Sia spirato il termine, e finita la giornata allo sparo, che sarà fatto d'un mastio subito sentite le 24 dell'oriuol maggiore.
 33.Sia la vittoria di quella parte, che avrà più volte guadagnata la caccia, ed allora le insegne siano dell'Alfiere vincitore: ed in caso di parità ciascuno riabbia la sua.

neweagle

Re:Le prime regole del calcio (8 Dicembre 1863) e una partita da organizzare.
« Risposta #46 : Sabato 5 Maggio 2012, 15:59:44 »
Sappiamo tutti che il prossimo che nomina il calcio ginnico di gabrielli, la roma o i romanisti in questa discussione si ritrova in "insulti e consulti".

Offline aquilafelyx

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Re:Le prime regole del calcio (8 Dicembre 1863) e una partita da organizzare.
« Risposta #47 : Mercoledì 9 Maggio 2012, 16:09:28 »
girovagando in rete ho trovato ,
Le origini del calcio ;)
M'illumino di Lulic

Bajo las águilas silenciosas, la inmensidad carece de significado.


Chi ha paura di perdere non merita di vincere

Giglic

Re:Le prime regole del calcio (8 Dicembre 1863) e una partita da organizzare.
« Risposta #48 : Mercoledì 9 Maggio 2012, 16:11:44 »
girovagando in rete ho trovato ,
Le origini del calcio ;)

Conoscevo. ESTREMAMENTE interessante  ;)

Teo

Re:Le prime regole del calcio (8 Dicembre 1863) e una partita da organizzare.
« Risposta #49 : Mercoledì 9 Maggio 2012, 23:11:45 »
Ho recuperato la definizione regolamentare di Fair Catch, dalle regole originali del 1863

"A Fair Catch is when the ball is Caught, after it has touched the person of an Adversary or has been kicked, knoched on, or trown by an Adversary, and before it has touched the ground or one of the Side catching it; but if the Ball is kicked  from out ot touch, or from behind goal line, a fair Catch cannot be made."

Teo

Re:Le prime regole del calcio (8 Dicembre 1863) e una partita da organizzare.
« Risposta #50 : Giovedì 10 Maggio 2012, 01:31:22 »
Comunque pure sulle regole del 1863 occorre far chiarezza, ne ho trovate almeno tre versioni diverse, tra le quali una in cui è consentito portare il pallone con le mani, cosa però che consentiva in pratica agli avversari di corcarti di mazzate. C'è un po' di confusione, toccherà come al solito far riferimento ai documenti originali, sennò non se ne esce.

neweagle

Re:Le prime regole del calcio (8 Dicembre 1863) e una partita da organizzare.
« Risposta #51 : Giovedì 10 Maggio 2012, 19:22:58 »
Comunque pure sulle regole del 1863 occorre far chiarezza, ne ho trovate almeno tre versioni diverse, tra le quali una in cui è consentito portare il pallone con le mani, cosa però che consentiva in pratica agli avversari di corcarti di mazzate. C'è un po' di confusione, toccherà come al solito far riferimento ai documenti originali, sennò non se ne esce.
forse è quello che stavo ceercando di dirti qualche pagina indietro.
la questione sul permettere o meno di avanzare stringendo la palla con le mani.

Le riunioni andarono avanti dall'ottobre al dicembre, anche con scambi di lettere, e la questione era assolutamente aperta, ho letto anche io di regole che prevedevano di poter avanzare con la palla stretta tra le braccia e di calci sugli stinchi autorizzati, ma grazie all'ooposizione di quelli di Sheffield la cosa non passò.

Oppure te ti riferisci a testi datati 8 dicembre 1863 che permettono queste cose? Non ho capito.

neweagle

Re:Le prime regole del calcio (8 Dicembre 1863) e una partita da organizzare.
« Risposta #52 : Giovedì 10 Maggio 2012, 19:35:15 »
qui infatti dice che Morley  il 24 novembre del 1863 si presentò con 23 regole, tra le quali la nona e la decima, che dicono più o meno questa cosa di poter avanzare con la palla in mano, almeno mi sembra.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/Frules.htm


The Football Association was established in October, 1863. The aim of the FA was to establish a single unifying code for football. The first meeting took place at the Freeman's Tavern in London. The clubs represented at the meeting included Barnes, Blackheath, Perceval House, Kensington School, the War Office, Crystal Palace, Forest (later known as the Wanderers), the Crusaders and No Names of Kilburn. Charterhouse also sent an observer to the meeting.

Ebenezer Cobb Morley was elected as the secretary of the FA. At a meeting on 24th November, 1863, Morley presented a draft set of 23 rules. These were based on an amalgamation of rules played by public schools, universities and football clubs. This included provision for running with the ball in the hands if a catch had been taken "on the full" or on the first bounce. Players were allowed to "hack the front of the leg" of the opponent when they were running with the ball. Two of the proposed rules caused heated debate:

IX. A player shall be entitled to run with the ball towards his adversaries' goal if he makes a fair catch, or catches the ball on the first bound; but in case of a fair catch, if he makes his mark (to take a free kick) he shall not run.
X. If any player shall run with the ball towards his adversaries' goal, any player on the opposite side shall be at liberty to charge, hold, trip or hack him, or to wrest the ball from him, but no player shall be held and hacked at the same time.
Some members objected to these two rules as they considered them to be "uncivilised". Others believed that charging, hacking and tripping were important ingredients of the game. One supporter of hacking argued that without it "you will do away with the courage and pluck of the game, and it will be bound to bring over a lot of Frenchmen who would beat you with a week's practice." The main defender of hacking was F. W. Campbell, the representative from Blackheath, who considered this aspect of the game was vital in developing "masculine toughness". Campbell added that "hacking is the true football" and he resigned from the FA when the vote went against him (13-4). He later helped to form the rival Rugby Football Union. On 8th December, 1863, the FA published the Laws of Football.

1. The maximum length of the ground shall be 200 yards, the maximum breadth shall be 100 yards, the length and breadth shall be marked off with flags; and the goal shall be defined by two upright posts, eight yards apart, without any tape or bar across them.

2. A toss for goals shall take place, and the game shall be commenced by a place kick from the centre of the ground by the side losing the toss for goals; the other side shall not approach within 10 yards of the ball until it is kicked off.

3. After a goal is won, the losing side shall be entitled to kick off, and the two sides shall change goals after each goal is won.

4. A goal shall be won when the ball passes between the goal-posts or over the space between the goal-posts (at whatever height), not being thrown, knocked on, or carried.

5. When the ball is in touch, the first player who touches it shall throw it from the point on the boundary line where it left the ground in a direction at right angles with the boundary line, and the ball shall not be in play until it has touched the ground.

6. When a player has kicked the ball, any one of the same side who is nearer to the opponent's goal line is out of play, and may not touch the ball himself, nor in any way whatever prevent any other player from doing so, until he is in play; but no player is out of play when the ball is kicked off from behind the goal line.

7. In case the ball goes behind the goal line, if a player on the side to whom the goal belongs first touches the ball, one of his side shall he entitled to a free kick from the goal line at the point opposite the place where the ball shall be touched. If a player of the opposite side first touches the ball, one of his side shall be entitled to a free kick at the goal only from a point 15 yards outside the goal line, opposite the place where the ball is touched, the opposing side standing within their goal line until he has had his kick.

8. If a player makes a fair catch, he shall be entitled to a free kick, providing he claims it by making a mark with his heel at once; and in order to take such kick he may go back as far as he pleases, and no player on the opposite side shall advance beyond his mark until he has kicked.

9. No player shall run with the ball.

10. Neither tripping nor hacking shall be allowed, and no player shall use his hands to hold or push his adversary.

11. A player shall not be allowed to throw the ball or pass it to another with his hands.

12. No player shall be allowed to take the ball from the ground with his hands under any pretence whatever while it is in play.

13. No player shall be allowed to wear projecting nails, iron plates, or gutta-percha on the soles or heels of his boots.

In 1866 the offside rule was altered to allow a player to be onside when three of opposing team are nearer their own goal-line. Three years later the kick-out rule was altered and goal-kicks were introduced.


neweagle

Re:Le prime regole del calcio (8 Dicembre 1863) e una partita da organizzare.
« Risposta #53 : Giovedì 10 Maggio 2012, 19:44:15 »
per chi legge in maniera scorrevole l'inglese, beato lui, un altro testo interessante.

Le prime pagine.

http://www.soccer.mistral.co.uk/books/fas-1.pdf

A SOURCE BOOK
This is a fact book for students of the game of association football. It shows the changes to the
laws of the game each season from 1863 to 1883 and provides lists of clubs who were members of
the Football Association. Fourteen complete sets of laws of the game are included, so that the
reader should find it possible to compare any match report with the laws that were in use at the
time. The lists of members should help identify which set of laws governed any particular match,
something that is not always easy to determine in the early years of the Association.
The book includes commentary and speculation by your author, but remains true to the
original minute book of the Football Association and press reports of the time. Such contents
could lead to a rather ‘dry’ and unreadable book. I have included match reports and other snippets
that will hopefully lend some colour to the account. When the F.A. Challenge Cup was introduced
in 1871-72 I have also included the entries for the competition.
The source of much of the material to 1873 is the first Minute Book of the Football
Association. It contains handwritten minutes and newspaper reports that have been pasted into the
book. It is necessary to rely on newspapers and periodicals from 1874 to 1883 since no minute
books have survived from this period.
Most of the text is “as reported at the time”, including spelling, grammar and punctuation,
with only minor editorial changes on my part. Comments in square brackets […] are mine, and are
used when it is necessary to distinguish them from the original account.
Tony Brown
Nottingham
November 2011

PREAMBLE
The laws of association football never stand still, so that even today the body responsible for them,
the International Football Association Board, is kept busy discussing changes proposed by the
member associations of F.I.F.A. However, decisions in recent times can all be described as “fine
tuning”, even if some of them (for example, stopping the pass-back to a goalkeeper) can have a
significant effect on the way the game is played.
Matters were not so straightforward in the early years. The (English) Football Association,
formed in 1863, attempted to establish a common set of rules for a sport that, by and large, had not
needed them. Other worthy books have described the many forms of the sport we can define
loosely as “moving a ball about with hand or foot, with the aim of achieving a goal”. It was a
sport where there were often no guidelines as to the number of players, the size of the ball, where
it was played, and how long it lasted.
So, it is not surprising that the members of the Football Association took some time to
agree the framework for playing the game we know today. It is my view that the development
phase was over by 1882, when the International Committee was formed. Of course, many
significant and important changes to the laws continued to be made afterwards, but I am content to
limit this book to the period from 1863 to 1883.
Hand in hand with the development of the laws is the question “did anyone care?” It
looked for a while in the 1860s as if the answer was firmly negative. Those who preferred a
handing or more-physical game resigned their membership of the Association. For many
provincial clubs, the Football Association became labelled as the “London” Association. This was
not due just to a not in my backyard attitude; the game in Sheffield was well-established prior to
1863 and there was no obvious reason at the time for them to change their rules.
Many authors have concluded that the introduction of a national tournament, for the
Football Association’s Challenge Cup, was the significant milestone. This book reveals a slow
growth in membership until the Cup found its feet in the late 1870s. 1883 is again a useful place
to end this study, since entries for the competition increased rapidly after this date, so that by 1888
a qualifying competition became necessary.

EARLY DAYS
November 1856. Football at Westminster. Handsome v. Ugly. This match was
played at Fields, on Wednesday the 29th ult, and, after a fine game, ended in the
Ugly gaining three games to two. The sides were – Ugly: T. Waters, R. Armistead,
F. Comyn, W. Henty, A. Balfour. G.C. Robinson, A. Walker, S. Stanhope, T. Betham,
A.S. Harington, T. Thorpe. – Handsome: S.G. Freeman, E.O. Berens, R.A. Eden,
H.L. Thompson, H.G.Green, H.M. Marshall, A. Hamersley, W.V. Vaughan Williams,
W.F. Spencer, S. French. Luckily for the Ugly, this match was played in the fog.
(Bell’s Life, November 16, 1856)
It would be a mistake to assume organized football started in England in 1863. There were many
inter-village games before then, which served two purposes: a little bit of condoned violence and
the opportunity to place a few wagers on the outcome. Much of this went unreported; the papers
concentrated on school matches at Charterhouse, Eton, Westminster and Rugby, where rules had
developed independently, often taking physical constraints of the playing area into account (the
wall at Eton, the cloisters at Charterhouse).
Although not exactly a set of rules, an early description of the village game can be found in
Francis Willughby’s “Book of Games” published in the late 1660s:
They blow a strong bladder and tie the neck of it as fast as they can, and then put it into the
skin of a bull’s cod and sew it fast in. They play in a long street, or a close that has a gate at either
end. The gates are called Goals. The ball is thrown up in the middle between the goals, the players
being equally divided according to their strength and nimbleness. Players must kick the ball
towards their opponents’ goal. They that can strike the ball through their opponents’ goal first
win. They usually leave some of their best players to guard the goal while the rest follow the ball.
They often break one another's shins when two meet and strike both together against the ball, and
therefore there is a law that they must not strike higher than the ball. “Tripping up of heels” is
when one follows one of his opponents and (to prevent him from striking the ball) strikes that foot
as he runs, that is from the ground, which – catching against the other foot – makes him fall. The
trick is to hit that foot that is moving and just taken from the ground, and then a little touch makes
him fall. The harder the ball is blown, the better it flies. They used to put quicksilver into it
sometimes to keep it from lying still. The players must first all stand at their goals, the ball lying
just in the middle between them, and they that can run best get the first kick.
The momentum to develop a common set of rules started in the 1850s. In 1859 Fred
Lillywhite wrote to the editor of Bell’s Life: Mr Editor: It is my intention to publish, in the next
edition of the Guide to Cricketers, the laws and rules of all the sports of athletic games which are
enjoyed in this country. Among them, of course, will be football: therefore, if Eton and Rugby, as
well as other colleges and schools, would form themselves into a committee and arrange that one
code of laws could be acknowledged throughout the world, it would be a great benefit to all, as is
the case with cricket. Yours, etc, Fred Lillywhite. 2 New Coventry Street, Leicester Square.
It is around this time that we begin to see football played by sporting clubs such as
Sheffield, Richmond and Barnes, each of whom would look outside of their own membership for
matches, when tired of playing “Short v. Tall”, “Married v. Unmarried”, and other unlikely
groupings of members. Here is a report from a Sheffield game of 1860:

Sheffield v 58th Regiment. This match, which had been delayed for some time,
owing to the unfavourable state of the weather, was played on Monday last at the
barrack ground at Hillsborough. Considerable interest was caused by the fact that
the regiment has amongst its officers several gentlemen who were formerly noted
players at the public schools, and it was thought the townsmen had at last met with
their match. The game was throughout conducted in a thoroughly good-tempered
and friendly manner, and the pluck and stamina exhibited on both sides was
undoubted. For some time the garrison had a slight advantage, but after an exciting
struggle of more than two hours, the civilians scored a hard-won victory, the result
being as follows: Sheffield one goal and 10 rouges, 58th Regiment one goal and five
rouges.
(Bell’s Life, December 23, 1860)
[A set of rules for games played by the Sheffield club was first published in 1858. Rouges were
similar to touchdowns in today’s rugby code.]
The interest in London in establishing a common set of rules began to gather pace. In November
1861 an anonymous correspondent wrote to Bell’s Life:
Mr Editor: will you give me a small space in your valuable paper to say a few words
about football. The various public schools play this game according to their
respective rules. These differ so much as to render it impossible for many of the
schools to play matches with each other. Why should not football, like cricket, have
one code of laws, which all should be bound to observe? This might be settled by a
meeting of captains of the football elevens of the several schools: previous to which
perhaps they would communicate, through your columns, the rules observed by their
schools on those points in their game on which the greatest difference exists, such as
holding and running with the ball, hitting the ball with the fist, etc.
Yours, etc, A Westminster.
The letter produced a swift and informative reply from “D.D”:
Mr Editor: Although almost every game of skill is played according to fixed and
definite rules, football is so far an exception that its rules are as various as the
number of places where it is played. Thus, at Eton a player is not allowed to touch a
ball with his hands, and the goal must be kicked. At Harrow, a player catching a
ball before it reaches the ground is entitled to a fair kick and, under certain
circumstances, the goal may be thrown. At Westminster, the ball may be caught
under any circumstances, but the catcher takes his chance of a kick. At Rugby, the
game is an indescribable medley, approximating closely to fives, wrestling, racing,
and football, but not fairly entitled to lay claim to any game in particular. In some
places the ball must be kicked over the goal, and in others under. In provincial
towns no rules are observed usually, and each player acts as seems to him best. The
consequence of all this diversity is, that when two clubs play a match, the first thing
to be determined is what rules shall be observed, and the discussion usually ends in
each side giving up some peculiar characteristics of its own, and the game is played
according to an amalgamated set of rules of the two clubs. At the match, however,
each side inadvertently makes mistakes, through playing with unusual rules, and the
result is that much ill-feeling is created. Now, sir, all difficulty would be obviated if
fixed rules were agreed upon by, say, three or more of the public schools, which

could be altered from time to time, as might be thought requisite. In anticipation of
such an occurrence, I will state what I think ought to be the principles of such rules,
and my only apology for thus obtruding my opinions must be, that I have played
football from my youth up, that for years I have constantly played matches, and that
I have always, with others, found great inconvenience from the absence of certain
and definite rules.
First, then, football is essentially a game for the feet: hands, therefore, ought
to be used no more than is strictly necessary.
2. The game is of itself dangerous enough, and all such practices as tripping
up, pushing with the hands, “hacking”, and wild and indiscriminate kicking, ought
to be carefully avoided.
3. When a ball is kicked out of bounds it ought to be returned, so as to alter
the state of the game as little as possible. It ought, therefore, to be kicked back from
the point at which it left the ground, and in a direction perpendicular to that side of
the ground.
4. All sneaking and standing off one’s side ought to be strictly prohibited.
I think, sir, that the above fundamental principles are quite sufficient to base a
proper set of rules upon, for it follows from No. 1 that the ball must never be
stopped by the hand when it can be stopped in any other way; that the ball must
never be picked up, struck, carried, or guided by the hand; and that when the ball is
so high that it cannot be stopped in any other way, it may be stopped with one hand
or two, but ought to be dropped at once to the ground. Moreover, the goal must be
kicked under, and not over, the string, as there would be otherwise no chance of
kicking a goal at all. Nos. 2 and 3 speak for themselves. No. 4 may be enforced by
requiring a certain number of players of the opposite side to be between a kicker
and the goal which he is endeavouring to reach, or by not allowing a man to kick a
ball which has last been kicked by one of his own side, unless either he was standing
behind the kicker at the time the kick was made, or someone of the opposite side first
touches the ball. Football is becoming so popular in England, and is so thoroughly
manly, and, therefore, English, that every facility and every encouragement ought to
be given to the practice of the game; and I think that the movement ought to be taken
up by the public schools, they are the nurseries of the game, and, in fact, the only
places excepting the Universities where the game is regularly and systematically
played. I have no doubt that any set of rules agreed upon by the public schools
would be at once adapted by all clubs, and it would be easy for the captains of the
elevens to communicate with each other and make the necessary arrangements.
Yours, etc, D.D.
(Bell’s Life, December 8, 1861)
Needless to say, there was a quick response from “An Old Rugbean” in the following edition,
taking strong objection to D.D.’s description of football at Rugby school as an “indescribable
medley”.
So, with the preliminary skirmishes out of the way, we can turn our attention to the events
of November and December 1863. The first stage was a “captains meeting”, just as suggested by
D.D. two years before. The F.A. Minute Book contains only brief handwritten accounts of the
decisions taken at the first meeting, but includes a newspaper report on which the following
paragraphs are based.
8
MEETING ONE, OCTOBER 26, 1863
On Monday evening a meeting of captains and other representatives of several of the metropolitan
and suburban football clubs was held at the Freemasons’ Tavern, Great Queen Street, Lincoln’s
Inn Fields, for the purpose of forming an association with the object of establishing a definitive
code of rules for the regulation of this game of football. The meeting was numerous and
influential, lacking, however, it will be observed, the presence of “The Schools,” with the
exception of the Charterhouse. That school was represented by Mr BF Hartshorne, captain, and the
other clubs and their officers present were: Perceval House, Blackheath, Mr G Shillingford,
secretary; Kensington School, Mr W Mackintosh, captain; Crystal Palace, Mr F Day, secretary;
Barnes, Mr EC Morley, captain, and Mr PD Gregory, secretary; Blackheath, Mr FH Moore,
captain, and Mr FW Campbell, secretary; Blackheath Proprietary School, Mr WH Gordon,
captain; the Crusaders (old public schools men); Forest, Leytonstone, JF Alcock, captain, and Mr
AW Mackenzie, secretary; N.N. Kilburn, Mr A Pember, captain; W.O., War Office, Mr GT
Wawn; and Charterhouse School, Mr BF Hartshorne, captain. There were several other gentlemen
present interested in the subject, who, although players, did not definitively represent any club.
Mr Pember (N.N., Kilburn) was requested to take the chair, and in doing so said that it
had been felt to be desirable to form some set of rules which the metropolitan clubs should adopt
among themselves, as there were so many different ways of playing, in order that, when they met
in friendly rivalry on other grounds the existing exceeding difficulty of “getting a goal” would be
more easily overcome. It had been proposed to form an association, which should meet once a year
and correct anything that was wrong if it should be necessary to do so.
Mr EC Morley (Barnes) had hoped to have seen some of the schools represented, but
their absence was attributable in all probability to the want of publicity of the fact that the meeting
would take place. They were, however, sufficiently strong as football players to carry out the
objects in view. He, therefore, proposed “That it advisable that a football association should be
formed for the purpose of settling a code of rules for the regulation of the game of football.”
Mr AW Mackenzie (Forest, Leytonstone) seconded the resolution, and hoped that the
gentlemen present would form themselves into a committee to affect the purpose of the
association.
Mr BF Hartshorne (Charterhouse) could not consent at present to put his name down as a
member of the association, as he thought it desirable that the public schools should be adequately
represented, and take a prominent part in the movement. It was certainly most desirable that some
definite set of rules for football should be generally adopted, yet, as a representative of the
Charterhouse School, the only public school represented, he could not pledge himself to any
course of action until he saw more clearly what the other schools did in the matter. Speaking on
behalf of the Charterhouse School, he would be willing to coalesce if the other public schools
would do the same, and probably at a more advanced stage of the association the opinion of the
generality of the other great schools would be obtained. It certainly would be advisable, if
possible, to obtain the cooperation of Rugby, Harrow, Winchester, Eton, Marlborough,
Cheltenham, and other public schools.
The Chairman thought their silence probably arose from no one in particular liking to take
the initiative, and put himself prominently forward. The object of the meeting was to form an
association to adopt and carry out a set of rules, in doing which of course the aid of the opinion
and counsel of the public schools would materially benefit them. The resolution was then put and
carried.

neweagle

Re:Le prime regole del calcio (8 Dicembre 1863) e una partita da organizzare.
« Risposta #54 : Giovedì 10 Maggio 2012, 20:00:14 »
Modifiche successive.

http://www.thefa.com/~/media/Files/PDF/Get%20into%20Football/Referees/Publications/3086_Ref%20Mag_6_v3new.ashx/3086_Ref%20Mag_6_v3new.pdf

These rule changes were made within the
next ten years:-
1865: Tape to be stretched across the goals,
eight feet from the ground
1866: Offside rule now allows a player to be
onside when three of the opposing team are
nearer their own goal-line
1866: Fair catch rule omitted
1869: Kick-out rule altered and goal-kicks
introduced
1871: Goalkeepers mentioned in the rules
for the first time
1872: Corner-kick adopted

Teo

Re:Le prime regole del calcio (8 Dicembre 1863) e una partita da organizzare.
« Risposta #55 : Giovedì 10 Maggio 2012, 20:04:38 »
forse è quello che stavo ceercando di dirti qualche pagina indietro.
la questione sul permettere o meno di avanzare stringendo la palla con le mani.

Le riunioni andarono avanti dall'ottobre al dicembre, anche con scambi di lettere, e la questione era assolutamente aperta, ho letto anche io di regole che prevedevano di poter avanzare con la palla stretta tra le braccia e di calci sugli stinchi autorizzati, ma grazie all'ooposizione di quelli di Sheffield la cosa non passò.

Oppure te ti riferisci a testi datati 8 dicembre 1863 che permettono queste cose? Non ho capito.

Ho un testo che compare su un libro UFFICIALE della Fifa, quindi attendibilissimo direi. La regola X dice che si può portare il pallone con le mani, ma in quel caso gli avversari hanno diritto di sgambettare e placcare il portatore di palla, e anche di tentare di togliergli il pallone dalle mani. Questa è probabilmente la versione uscita fuori dalla riunione della Free Mason's Tavern, ma già a dicembre la regola era sparita e si specificava che nessuno può correre portando (carrying) il pallone. E questo provocò l'uscita dei dissidenti che poi diedero vita alla Rugby Association nel 1871.

C'è bisogno di fare chiarezza, senza dubbio.

neweagle

Re:Le prime regole del calcio (8 Dicembre 1863) e una partita da organizzare.
« Risposta #56 : Giovedì 10 Maggio 2012, 20:14:47 »
si appunto. é la regola del 24 novembre. l'ho scritto subito dopo.

Giglic

Le prime regole del calcio (8 Dicembre 1863) e una partita da organizzare.
« Risposta #57 : Giovedì 10 Maggio 2012, 20:17:59 »
Ma non sgambettare e placcare contemporaneamente   Questo è rimasto nel rugby, mi sembra

neweagle

Re:Le prime regole del calcio (8 Dicembre 1863) e una partita da organizzare.
« Risposta #58 : Lunedì 28 Novembre 2016, 17:04:24 »
Salve a tutti, alla fine la partita si farà.

Proprio l'8 Dicembre, nel Campo sportivo dell'Oratorio Salesiano di Macerata.

La giocheranno, durante la festa del compleanno dell'Oratorio, ragazzi delle giovanili dell'Amatori Rugby Macerata, della società di Calcio Robur 1905, degli Scout di Macerata 2 e della Compagnia del Savio (i ragazzi dell'Oratorio).

C'è un evento "Si gioca fratelli" pubblicato su internet dove ci sono altre informazioni.

https://www.facebook.com/events/223057678120001/?ti=icl

Ciao a tutti.

Offline DinoRaggio

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Re:Le prime regole del calcio (8 Dicembre 1863) e una partita da organizzare.
« Risposta #59 : Lunedì 28 Novembre 2016, 19:46:54 »
"La partita si giocherà anche se non piove."  :D

Ci sarà la possibilità di vedere un filmato della partita? Sono molto curioso di vedere che tipo di sport verrà fuori.
E ra gisumin all'ùart!

La serie A è un torneo di limpidezza cristallina, gli arbitri non hanno alcunché contro la Lazio e si distingueranno per l'assoluta imparzialità, non ci saranno trattamenti di favore o a sfavore nei confronti di alcuno. Sarà un torneo di una regolarità esemplare. (19-8-2016)